Terran Imperium said:
Did you need to write that much? Jesus. I think you could've cut down your word count by at least 70% while getting your point perfectly across.
…You literally wrote more than me in my previous posts.
I don't understand you. You want me to bloat my posts with quotes and citations, but you also think I'm not summarizing or being concise enough? Pick one! 😏
Terran Imperium said:
You're drawing unapplicable parallels between the Elder Scrolls universe and real-world academic debates which to say the least is a bit "ambitious". Sure, it is true that groundbreaking theories do emerge without prior citations, then they are rigorously tested and supported by empirical evidence before becoming widely accepted. How is this relevant to a fictional setting's texts? Not that your analogy made much sense in the first place as you conveniently bypassed the importance of validation through empirical observation and experimentation.
Really now? Coulda fooled me! I thought I just, you know, provided an interpretation for consideration and explained how I think it works.
At the end of my original post, I preempted the very predictable response that people would demand quotes and citations because nothing is worth considering without quotes! Frankly I can't be bothered. In the post you are responding to I said "I don't arbitrate Elder Scrolls canon". My argument doesn't hinge on demanding people accepting what I say without question—your argument hinges on me demanding that. As do some the points you make where you seem to just regurgitate "conventional wisdom" (which I don't think is very wise).
You've done *exactly* what I tried to head off because I saw it coming; demand citations, don't interact with what I'm actually presenting, and then dump a bunch of quotes that don't support you, but make your argument look good because you're quoting at all.
Terran Imperium said:
You're drawing unapplicable parallels between the Elder Scrolls universe and real-world academic debates
I'm just explaining discussion etiquette. it doesn't mattter what the discussion topic is, I used a dinosuar example, but this still applies to, you know, narrative analysis. If I explain that blue drapes are symbolic of depression, do I need a damn citation?
If you want to engage with the idea presented, including providing citations, then do so. The demand for citations on my end that my model is reality is just an attempt at obfuscation. You make it sound like you aren't presenting a hypothetical model but just "canon reality" but you are. And you aren't going to find any citations going into the mathematics of how all moisture in the body is evaporated with heat from electrical resistance and somehow the effects of this are incredibly contained and visually unimpressive.
I am acting entirely within the guidelines for versus debating; please actually read them.
7. When to Cite or Ask for a Citation
Too often people abuse the rule in asking for a citation or evidence in an attempt to bog down a debate or discussion. This is known as debating in bad faith and is against the rules. There is a statement that extraodinary claims require extraodinary evidence and that's often true and if people continue to make extraodinary claims without backing them up, that is against the rules as well. The inverse is true as well however. We don't want people to waste time citing evidence that should be common knowledge or readily accessible... like the caliber of an assault rifle in a popular video game... or whether ships in Star Wars can travel faster then light.Remember when you are debating, that your arguments will always be stronger if you back your opinions or arguments with evidence and citations and interpret and derive your arguments from said cited evidence. Oftentimes in VS. Discussion we take what we hold as common knowledge for granted. When making an argument, don't feel reluctant to simply plead ignorance if you can't remember the episode where something occurred or the thread where something was mentioned. The next best thing to making a complete argument is an honest one.
Keep in mind that when you make a citation, just providing a screencap or snippet isn't enough. You still have to interpret the evidence and provide a context and so forth. And do so in a manner that is honest and forthright. Providing citations out of context or presented in a way that is intentionally misleading is especially punishable by disciplinary action.
You will note the discouragement against getting overly detailed about things people are already familiar with, like the way people turn to ash from the lightning spells. Which I referenced repeatedly. That's my citation. I don't need a game manual explaining textually what we all have seen and know about already, like "Mario can jump really high!"—Yeah no sh*t, Sherlock. I'm similarly presuming that people know at least something about the formation of Mundus and the existence of Aetherius in a discussion like this, especially since you seem to paint yourself as actually knowing a good deal about the setting. But do you actually *think* about it, or does your analysis brain only turn on when it's time to squeeze blood from feat rocks? How do healing potions heal?
Why am I making an argument like this? Because I think it makes sense. Do you think when John Byrne explained Superman's ability to lift giant objects without them collapsing under their own weight (or for that matter the usage of ostensibly psionic abilities to explain how he's able to see things smaller than an atom and hear faster than light?) that this was an established part of the setting or Superman's power set? No! He was just "strong"! Does that mean he wasn't using tactile telekinesis before? No! I am clearly not writing for TES, but that kind of hypothesizing and modeling is actually desired for these kinds of conversations.
I think it's notable and hilarious that in Star Trek circles, everyone acknowledges and argues that phasers don't actually vaporize people because that isn't what vaporization looks like—to the potential detriment of their biggaton numbers. Yet to many TES fans, such as yourself, extremely similar acting magic is definitely proof of biggaton magic yields from "normal" scale magic. Why is that exactly? Maybe you think phasers do vaporize people, but you'll have to forgive me if I don't find that logic convincing, and if you're trying to convince an audience you need to bear that in mind.
The other bit of irony is that when people discuss TES they will often wax poetic about how TES's "hax" and memetic abnormal magical setting gives it great advantages against this or that; but when we start talking about lightning blasts, for some reason that all goes out the window and now we're discussing pure firepower and biggajoules! I find it a bit strange to simultaneously believe Alduin's throat, which is currently inside and defined by spacetime, will swallow all spacetime literally—but also lightning that has abnormal effects on what is already an abnormal world, is just lightning, you know? The word "metaphysics" still has "physics" in it.
I find dealing with this and the immediate move to dismiss my hypothesis and attack around it instead of disecting it to very "fun", which is why I'm oh so eager to go digging through sources to make sure I have as many supporting quotes as possible and want to spend as much time as possible on this!
Terran Imperium said:
Goji said:
Your citation does not weaken my position. It makes clear that something relevant is happening that isn't "just" energetic electron transfer.
Right. We'll see about that. You're trying to say the quote agrees with you when in fact there is nothing to suggest as such? That's not just lazy; it's intellectually dishonest.
Bro what the f—
You skipped over the part where I explained why the source supports me. I extra large, bold, underlined and colored letters, even.
I'm actually shocked (ba-dum-tss). I'm not gonna sit here and spaghetti post with you while you flail at strawmen you're still somehow missing. I said it doesn't claim to be pure electron transfer. You called me intellectually dishonest and are saying nothing about how this proves it's JUST electron transfer, or even talking about electron transfer at all.
To explain what I already highlighted in more detail; if you pull on the fibers of a weave or tapestry... you end up unraveling or "unmaking" the tapestry. Taking this description seriously opens the idea that lightning can do this if taken to an arbitrary extreme.
Terran Imperium said:
The Theory of Lightning offers an explanation of how shock spells function in TES, precisely detailing the theoretical framework behind how they're manifested. It describes shock as an inherent property of matter and magicka, with lightning spells manipulating magicka to generate sparks and coalesce into magical lightning. I brought this quote up to attack this particular claim of yours.
Me said:
I think "health" reflects some magical animating life force or vitality that helps construct the form of the spirit within the living creature or construct (or is formed by it, the lines might be blurry) and gives it form in accordance to the original primordial creation of the Aedra and their combined will; that which descended from the divine spark of life in the image of divine spirits that are themselves animated essences and life forces. I would posit that when this force bleeds out through injury is when death occurs, and that restoration and healing magic (including potions) restore the healthy form of the body and close these wounds by replenishing this core life force.
I believe that the magical lightning is a force of destruction drawing on metaphysics that, so long as the body has that core "health" life force that gives the entity shape and function lightning will merely do damage. Until that creative and structural force is drained and absent, or sufficiently low to provide insufficient resistance, the lightning will not "unmake" the physical form and return the primordial "ash to ash and dust to dust"; will not unmake the creation that it is. That the act of turning a target to ash is exactly this—esoteric, and not physics based (in regards to our own understanding of electricity or heat in real life—this would effectively be the physics and laws of reality of the TES setting) in the slightest.
It doesn't directly address the broader concepts of "health" or the metaphysical underpinnings of magic. You posit that the concept of "health" is tied to a magical life force that sustains living beings and can be replenished through restoration magic. You also suggest that magical lightning operates within a metaphysical framework, only causing destruction when the target's core life force is sufficiently drained or absent.
However, the quote explicitly does not MENTION the relationship between "health" and magical life force, nor does it delve into the metaphysical implications of lightning spells being able to turn people into ash. My quote is evidence against this because clearly the experienced mage in a learned mage guild would in fact precisely describe such a phenomena which would be oh so important to mention on a treatise clearly labelled "Theory of Lightning". The fact that he didn't implies otherwise, as difficult as it is to prove a negative, this is as close as one can get.
Okay?
I didn't say it did?
Why in the world would he talk about life force here? Hell he's not talking about disintegration at all. The characterization of this as a "learned treatise" is actually kind of demented, did we read the same quote?
Do you know where I got the idea of "health"? Of the interaction of lightning with "health"?
Wow! Amazing! "If their health is low"! Also no mention of "vaporization"!
From there, I, you know, hypothesize about what these mechanics are reflecting "in reality" and why this interaction exists in a manner beyond pure gameplay mechanics that doesn't devolve into "booo game mechanics bad". One that connects to things like the known existence of souls and the presence of mana magicka in the setting and natural environment that then brings me to ideas like chi and... well, mana or any other various universal energy; it's a very common concept... (Technically Mora'at does indirectly talk about "life force" when he talks about the presence of the weave of magic in all living things, but that requires more classical knowledge to pick up the clear signposting about universal energies)
I don't need a book to tell me that "Health" exists. I can speculate on it because it's RIGHT. THERE. This is exactly why I pre-emptied these annoying, stupid demands for textual citations when I was talking about game experience and you just went and did it anyway! Thank you, I appreciate it! :/
Now you might say, there's nothing suggesting "health" (as a reflection of some energy) is real other than game mechanics and the mechanic might not represent what I think it does. True! But I have other points of evidence of this interaction beyond just believing this to be common in video games.
For instance, if a corpse is risen by a necromancer, if the necromancer, who is supplying the animating energy for the revived body, is slain, then the revived corpse will disintegrate in exactly the same manner as lightning-based disintegration.
View: https://youtu.be/bSBlJjIYIGQ?si=9hoUO30Ay5H5Q3pB&t=45
~0:50 you can see this happen to the revived spellcaster on the left when the necromancer on the right dies.
Now, notably, there are no forces other than those associated with life, death, and artificial life that might be causing this effect. Nothing with biggajoule heats or flashy destructive magic. Wow, life and death magic? Sounds like something that will bring up concepts related to "health"!
Unrelenting Force will also disintegrate targets with low health, but otherwise just throw them around, and there's no clear indication of massive quantities of heat or energy. Why is this happening? Why does it look exactly the same?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpGuOcm5qdo&ab_channel=DalsariusTV
You can shout at enemy 15 times and their body will be fine. The 16th? Now they're a pile of glowy, arcane ash.
I also notice that you completely ignored what I said about restoration magic even existing when talking about the existence of health (a statistic that exists alongside things like "magicka" and "stamina" which are both quantitative sources of "energy"), and perhaps don't seem interested in talking about how souls (ie the animating force of a living being) exist, which can be converted into magicka through charges in soul gems, or how dragon bodies seemingly "vaporize" when their souls are removed. Why in the world would I be getting my "health" "lore" from a single book on sparks?? I already imagine nothing explains this interaction. That's why I said what I said about citations! You have to think outside the box! You should be doing so anyway!
Look, you have essentially two options.
You can accept the citation's hypothesis, which claims that lightning is a "natural force" like "fire and frost", and/or that the world is filled with and partially composed of magicka, which is very clearly a distinct phenomena from the electromagnetic force in real life, OR you can throw out Mora'at's text as him not knowing anything better. The first would indicate that reality doesn't work like ours does and that something isn't normal about any of the elements (which is true; flame spells don't exactly have physical fuel to burn, and ice spells curiously seem to create matter out of nothing) and the second doesn't actually prove me wrong.
You seem to have cited this solely to highlight the observations of static electricity existing and the connection of magical lightning to this phenomena, and therefore that it's normal lightning and from there leap to ONLY normal lightning. I reject the leap, and am confused by the rest because, again, I didn't need a citation that static electricity exists. I never claimed it didn't, I never dissociated magical lightning from electrical effects! You didn't need to provide one that said it did. I didn't demand it of you. If someone did, I'd find that really silly.
This has NOTHING to do with what I wrote. It's not an example of something disagreeing with me. That's the point. What the citation does suggest is that magicka suffuses everything in reality and helps give it form, that supports part of my hypothesis, even if it is ultimately just vague.
At best what this demonstrates is, if not what I'm saying here about the nature of magic and physical reality, that diagetic texts in the game are not entirely reliable. (Also duh, but surprisingly not to a lot of people). That, again, supports my point at least somewhat.
Terran Imperium said:
This is clearly wrong. In the treatise, Mora'rat describes shock spells as channeling and manipulating magicka through the fabric of reality, agitating its fibers to generate sparking and thus there you have magical lightning. It is pretty much outright told that the act of "agitating reality" (fancy way of saying I'm using esoteric energy to create a natural phenomena) is a precursor/cause to the manifestation of lightning spells. It is not the effect it has upon its target.
"It recoils upon one, and one lets out a yip as all of one's fur stands up straight and sparks jolt through one's form and out the tip of one's tail."
"Shock, like Flame and Frost, is an expression of magical power that takes the form of a natural force. Everyone has played with this force when one was a ja'khajiit, scuffing one's feet across a rug and then stinging a sibling with a small spark from an extended claw, or rubbing an inflated rat's-bladder against one's fur until the hairs stand up and the bladder "sticks" to one's chest or arm."Lightning spells do not unmake a target using esoteric methods. This essentially tells us that once cast, magical lightning behaves similarly to natural lightning and, at high enough voltage (cast by a powerful and experienced mage), can turn someone to ash with the flow of charged particles, as that is what the spell does and its intended purpose. Mora'rat explicitly defines shock spells as magical power expressions that take the form of a natural force. It is pretty explicitly about the idea that despite its magical origins, lightning behaves in a way that is consistent with our understanding of the natural phenomena.
What are you talking about? This just reads like more of the inane "if it wasn't directly said it can't exist" nonsense. None of what *
you're* saying is in the text either! The text is the text! It's like the idea that someone else reading the text and interpreting something else is completely alien to you, but that's exactly what these diegetic texts are very literally and intentionally designed for. And it's all ultimately irrelevant like I said in the beginning! I don't care about this "treatise"!
None of this precludes the idea that lightning, natural, magical or otherwise, acts esoterically within the setting, which would only be recognized as natural anyway! You're not saying ANYTHING. You don't seem to understand either this text or what I'm saying. What is the point of my continuing this conversation? You're not engaging with me at all!
The very fact that "esoteric energies" pouring in from holes in spacetime from Aetherius exists to create natural phenomena and exists in every aspect of the natural universe is NOT NORMAL. HELLOOOOOOOO
Terran Imperium said:
That's just in the context of Oblivion. We are outright told in War Weather that it was used in different regions across the world to... mixed results due to Sheogorath's willfulness.
It doesn't say this at all! Not even a little bit! You're completely unaware of your own logical leaps!
Arresea's "The Daedric Primer" describes a spell devised by Sheogorath, Daedric Prince, called Manipulate Weather. She writes, "Sheogorath's spell folio includes an incantation to match the weather with his mood. The Lord of the Madhouse has been known to teach the spell to mortals in his favor, allowing them to alter the climate of an entire region. Unfortunately, the spell functions at Sheogorath's whim, no matter who casts it—meaning it functions entirely randomly. There are stories of his followers trying to stymie flashfloods but summoning torrential rain instead, or trying to put out brush fires and feeding the flames with unwanted lightning storms, to Sheogorath's delight. Making a Daedric Pact with Sheogorath is probably not in our best interest, but it seems there is something we can learn from the Prince of Madness.
Who is Arresea? What is the context of "The Daedric Primer"? What was the book about and what does it originally say? Where does this entry say it was used anywhere on Nirn? When, where, by whom was it used?
The guy who mantles SHEOGORATH HIMSELF, as the player does after the conclusion of the Shivering Isles story as Sheogorath, cannot use this spell outside of the Shivering Isles. If he can't, who the hell could?? You think this is somehow overwritten by some fluff text in Elder Scrolls Online that doesn't even clarify that Sheogorath teaches mortals to use it outside of his plane of Oblivion, somehow overwrites that??
View: https://youtu.be/HOyNqYdK_ZI?si=br78mdTTszK7KUwC&t=381
Why do you seem to think some text you found on a wiki with no context are somehow more informative or meaningful than the reality you see and explore playing the game?
Is this why you need a book, in-game to tell you that lightning is lightning and think it's actually meaningful and not incredibly obvious? What did you think I thought lightning was?? The text is a record of a medieval Khajit making tiny baby steps into understanding electricity—you and I already know what electricity is! We know better than he does! We're supposed to know better than he does! It's meant to be read by a modern human past the 4th wall!
That all has nothing to do with what I was talking about. The one thing this text supplies is the idea that magic suffuses reality and gives rise to natural phenomena, which itself indicates that on a fundamental level the natural phenomena in question are not quite the ones we're familiar with; unless Mora'at is assuming that electromagnetism is just magic; which he might be, I dunno.
But regardless of anything, the disintegration ability doesn't seem tied to actually doing more damage, so presumably doesn't represent a massive increase by orders of magnitude of the power of these magical lightning bolts to destroy. Again, the only information is that it's tied to low health in the target.
If you feel like ignoring health as a factor in this, go ahead, but then I'd have to question why we're acknowledging this perk in the first place and not just throwing it all away. And my best guess to that effect is... because you get nice, fat, juicy numbers out of it. Gotta go for the biggajoules!
Terran Imperium said:
The Maormeri treatise is, in fact, limited in its depictions. Fair enough. You require more evidence of the ability of mortal beings to manipulate the weather in and outside of war? Here it is.
No, I don't, because I don't particularly care and never made an argument about manipulation of the weather. I liked Xcano 's post about it for providing a well-reasoned perspective and offered a comment and video on a point he was mentioning and mentioned that the environmental lighting changes beyond the area of effect and that the weather is not simulated perfectly here (nor is it in any video game), and opined that the rapid fire lightning bolts from Storm Call seem to have a limited area of effect even if the storm doesn't.
I don't care about texts about other people in other times or places. I don't care what they do or don't do, if they even do it. I don't get why you're throwing all these irrelevant quotes at me, so I'm not going to bother responding to them. They don't matter. They never mattered. I stand by what I said about your usage of other quotes (ie the Sheogorath thing is wildly out of context), but I refuse to get bogged down in every little thing you say when it's not even pertinent. Even if these people did these things, even if they have that power, they're not the Dragonborn, and changing the weather won't beat a tank or stop a fighter jet from blowing you up from miles out.
Terran Imperium said:
Alduin is cruel, sad*stic, has a (justified) god complex, and hateful. He is the archetypical megalomaniacal evil villain. For the citation as to him having gone rogue, see here:
Sahloknir: Alduin, thuri! Boaan tiid vokriiha suleyksejun kruziik? (Alduin, my overlord! Has time come to revive the ancient realm?)
Alduin: Geh, Sahloknir, kaali mir. ( Yes, Sahloknir, my trusted ally.)
-A Blade in the Dark, TES:V
Paarthurnax says as much too:
"Indeed. Alduin wahlaan daanii. His doom was written when he claimed for himself the lordship that properly belongs to Bormahu - our father Akatosh."
Alduin planned on reviving the Dragon Cult and once again establish his rule just as it once was back then. A pretty horrible fate all things considered, the Dragon Cult was not what you would call an ideal "government" for mortals. Alduin should instead be gearing up for the End of the Kalpa, by progressively devouring more and more of the world and growing in size until it all ends up in his gullet. All of it.
The above is fact and canon, what is commonly misinterpreted as also being true with the above is that the Dragonborn is intended to "set Alduin straight" to actually do his job because Daddy Akatosh is mad. That's just a fan theory. Who the Dragonborn is, why they are there, or how did they come to be there are not questions we have the answers to. The only thing we know for sure, the Elder Scrolls foretold the Dragonborn's eventual clash with Alduin and so it was set in stone.
No, he doesn't! Paarthurnax does not say that he wasn't going to kill everyone! He said he claimed lordship that belongs to Akatosh.
Akatosh doesn't act as king ruling over human lives. He's talking about something else.
Paarthurnax himself acknowledges that Alduin is going to destroy the world.
I like this world. I don't want it to end. "Pruzah. As good a reason as any. There are many who feel as you do, although not all. Some would say that all things must end, so that the next can come to pass. Perhaps this world is simply the Egg of the next kalpa? Lein vokiin? Would you stop the next world from being born?"
The next world will have to take care of itself. "Paaz. A fair answer. Ro fus… maybe you only balance the forces that work to quicken the end of this world. Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end… Wuldsetiid los tahrodiis. Those who try to hasten the end, may delay it. Those who work to delay the end, may bring it closer."
The world is a better place without Alduin. "Perhaps. At least it will continue to exist. Grik los lein. And, as you told me once, the next world will have to take care of itself. Ful nii los. Even I cannot see past Time's ending." "I am glad you believe that. At least it will continue to exist. Grik los lein. Even I cannot see past Time's ending to what comes next. Niid koraav zeim dinoksetiid. We must do the best we can with this world."
As a general reminder, everyone seems to know about Alduin's destiny to end the world, and Paarthurnax believes that Alduin pursues his destiny:
What better reason to act than to fulfill my destiny?"
If you can see your destiny clearly, your sight is clearer than mine. Dahmaan - remember, Alduin also follows his destiny, as he sees it. But, I bow before your certainty. In a way, I envy you. The curse of much knowledge is often indecision."
Alduin's very name, "Destroyer-Devour-Master" speaks to this role.
Setting aside that all the stuff about the kalpa is still vague and I generally and genuinely don't agree with your take on it ("as he sees it" as Paarthurnax says)—where does Alduin, or anyone else say he plans on reviving the Dragon Cult? Not a single mortal joins the side of the dragons in the game. Not one. Nor is anyone ever coerced into it. Sahloknir asks Alduin if the dragon's dominion is to rise again, and Alduin says yes, but "dragons holding dominion over the Earth" doesn't necessarily mean "we're going to convert mortals again, after they ruined everything last time". They don't need them.
The prophecy that was feared by Esbern, the one that Paarthurnax notes was taken from an Elder Scroll, was that Alduin WOULD end the Kalpa and destroy the world UNLESS stopped by the Dragonborn. It is not clear that he was not doing his job by refusing to initiate or prepare for the Kalpa at all. It's entirely possible that it was his attempting to end the world, and thus claim rulership of it by conquest, that he was defying his role and Akatosh. That's certainly my reading of it.
"The above is fact and canon" just shows me how rigid your thinking is and how... shallowly you're engaging with the writing of the media.
Lost in The Moment said:
My reply is getting to long and I wanna keep it short so sorry if I missed anything and I'm getting my words mixed up up
1) I mean I guess but the dude literally said "oh yeah that's bullsh*t" when Miraak splitting Solstheim happens. I would rather believe the Skaal people then some author who just ignored what happen, sure the story could've diluted over time but there's no reason not to believe them more then the author.
2) Even if they Greybeards didn't use their full Thu'um you still fight plenty and plenty of Dragons which DO use their full might on you, pretty sure it's even stated by one of the Dragons that you're Thu'um is on par with Alduin.
1) I mean, I'll throw you a bone and say that "historian gets the REAL history wrong, *wink*" is a trope, and that this even reads like it; so I'd be willing to bet he's at least getting something wrong, yeah. But I don't think it's especially relevant to general powerscaling; In the Dragonborn plot, the first thing Miraak does is try to take over the All-Maker Stones, "the very land itself" of Solstheim as he rebuilds his temple. He very likely had control over the land itself... the story speaks of his battle with Vahlok, but in reality it's made clear the dragons en masse came and razed his temple. It's also very plausible that the story was true, but not *literally* true; Miraak taking over the island and the "disrupting the Onenness of the land" (which the All-Maker Stones dictate) may be what was referenced here, with "breaking the Oneness of the land" being misinterpreted (my personal guess).
Who are you?
"I am Frea of the Skaal. I am here to either save my people, or avenge them."Save them from what?"I am unsure. Something has taken control of most of the people of Solstheim. It makes them forget themselves, and work on these horrible creations that corrupt the Stones, the very land itself. My father Storn, our shaman, says Miraak has returned to Solstheim, but that is impossible."
What do you know about Miraak?
"His story is as old as Solstheim itself. He served the dragons before their fall from power, as most did. A priest in their order. But unlike most, he turned against them. He made his own path, and his actions cost him dearly. The stories say he sought to claim Solstheim for himself, and the dragons destroyed him for it."
Tell me of your people, the Skaal.
"We have lived on Solstheim for many generations. Our people are tied to the land itself. We try to serve the All-Maker, to live in balance with nature, instead of exploiting it as others would."
Once Miraak is defeated, Frea will walk up to you and ask:
It just takes a little reading between the lines here. The historian spoke to the Skaals, was told about how Miraak in the past broke the Oneness of the land before the Dragons destroyed him, and, not understanding their spiritual (or magical) meaning of the Oneness of the Land of Solstheim, took it to mean that Miraak and Vahlok's battle literally broke the Oneness of the land and split Solstheim from Skyrim. Throw in a "his story is as old as Solstheim itself" as a figure of speech and you've got yourself confusion!
It could also refer to the symbolic separation of the Dragon Cult from the mainland, or something to do with Hermaeus Mora, or any other myriad possibilities. The Skaal mention (and show!) that they are intrinsically tied to the land of Solstheim in a mystical way, as well, that they are a part of it. With that kind of connection, references to Solstheim as being "separated from the mainland of Skyrim" could easily mean something different to them than what Lucius Gallus understood from it. All of these things make more contextual sense than "Miraak and Vahlok broke the continent". Hell, even the Skaal don't seem to think so! Frea says this while delving into the Sanctum of Miraak's temple:
"How much deeper can this be? I had been told that Miraak's power was great, but to have built so large a temple... It cannot be much farther now. I feel it in my bones."
She's literally more impressed that the temple is deep than the idea she got from her stories. This would be very strange if she was under the impression he broke the continent.
2) So?
Lithium3 said:
We have direct quotes from Bethesda about them not wanting to implement environmental destruction.
It really blows my mind what kind of mental contortions people must go through to read a quote saying they didn't want a lot of environmental destruction to be a thing and go "oh that means there's way more of it".
Absolutely dumbfounding.
Lost in The Moment said:
Also why are you saying "oh its D&D not Dragonball it shouldn't be that strong" like ok that's your issue with the setting, The Dragonborn should technically be a multiversal god due to the fact he beat Aludin who can bully the Deadric Princes with one of them said your half as strong as him after only one dragonsoul and said guy could snap his fingers and kill everyone in skyrim and that's still not his full power
Jfc
